From: "MALCOLM WRIGHT" To: Subject: AEL NAHR EL KALB INSCRIPTIONS Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:48:07 +0100 HI LISTERS, DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE INSCRIPTION OF RAMESS II AT NAHR EL KALB (DOG RIVER) OUTSIDE BEIRUT, SHOWING RAMESES II AND AMUN , CAN BE FOUND IN "RAMESSIDE INSCRIPTIONS "BY KITCHEN. AND IF A TRANSLATION HAS BEEN PUBLISHED. THANKS MALCOLM WRIGHT ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:48:20 +0200 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: jbj Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics At 10:37 AM 99/08/29 -0700, you wrote: > >Can someone point me to a site where I can learn hieroglyphics from scratch? >I mean from zilch. I know absolutely nothing of Hieroglyphs > >Thanks. > >Paul > Hi Paul ,The first place to look at would be:http://www.friesian.com/egypt.htm Greetings, Jan Jacobs,South Africa> > ============================================================================== From: "Paul Vandine" To: Subject: AEL Thanks for your help! Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:44:44 -0700 Thanks for the help everyone. I will be monitoring the list, and probably asking dumb questions every now and then . Please bear with me. Paul ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:27:06 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics one book which came out last year from uc press and seems rather nice as a modest intro is egyptian hieroglyphs. it touches the basics and is up to date. someone might be able to correct me if i have the title wrong or to provide more biblio info. chris hoffman On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Paul Vandine wrote: > See http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ for AEL resources. Copyright in > the following belongs to undersigned. To reply privately, use address of sender. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Can someone point me to a site where I can learn hieroglyphics from scratch? > I mean from zilch. I know absolutely nothing of Hieroglyphs > > Thanks. > > Paul > > ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:34:11 -0600 From: "Duncan Gold" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics Hi! I just got James Hoch's Middle Egyptian Grammar and have been pretty impressed with it. It can be a little tricky get (at least in my part of the country), but, in my opinion, it's worth the effort in trying to locate a copy. I would second the idea of making flash cards of the monoliterals, two and three letters signs. The Autowitch (aka Duncan Gold) http://members.xoom.com/autowitch gold@esg-us.com ============================================================================== From: "Marjorie Rigby" To: Subject: AEL Hares etc Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:42:07 +0100 Thank you very much to Listmembers for their help on the above topic, and my thanks would have come sooner if I had not been on vacation for a couple of weeks. You have all been very kind. Sincerely, Marjorie Rigby marjorie@multirigby.freeserve.co.uk ============================================================================== Date: 30 Aug 1999 13:15:15 -0700 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: Subject: Ref.: AEL Estela of the Inventory Saludos! Al ser de Mxico podemos intercambiar ideas en espaol por este medio acerca del antiguo Egipto, escencialmente lo concerniente a la escritura, en particular me interesa mucho la posible pronunciacin del egipcio. Y si usted podra ayudarme un poco con los verbos, i.e. sus formas, talez como las descritas en Egyptian Grammar, de Gardiner. v. gr. el Old Perfectiv, y las formas de los participios. Como su seguro servidor Rafael Lambarn Abre gratis una cuenta de email en StarMedia Mail. El mejor servicio de email gratis de toda latinoamrica. http://www.starmedia.com ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:28:11 -0400 Subject: AEL Ordering: J.E. Hoch, _Middle Egyptian Grammar_ To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: James_Hoch@campuslife.utoronto.ca (James Hoch) Hello, You can order a copy of my book on Egyptian grammar by contacting the publisher by e-mail: loretta.james@utoronto.ca or order by fax (416) 971-2362 and I will pass on the order to Benben Publications (address, below). Shipment (included in the cost) is by surface mail, unless you make arrangements with the publisher. I also attach (at the end of the message) a blurb that was placed on the world wide web. The pagination has changed somewhat in order to keep postage costs down. The price is: 1 copy $50 (U.S.)--(payment by personal check, money order, or bank check in U.S. dollars) ** Additional "Sign List" $12 (U.S.)--in a separate booklet. Please let us know whether you need this or not. This is more or less equivalent to Gardiner's sign list in his _Egyptian Grammar_. Address: james_hoch@campuslife.utoronto.ca Benben Publications/SSEA Publications 1483 Carmen Drive Mississauga, Ontario L5G 3Z2 Canada Best wishes, James Hoch **************************************************************** Middle Egyptian Grammar by James E. Hoch: current length 385 pp. + xx; proposed final length: ca 500 pp. including appendices, index of grammatical matters, glossary of Egyptian vocabulary, glossary of technical terms, and sign list. The current version contains an index, key to about 1/2 of the exercises, and an Egyptian-English vocabulary list. The book is Volume 15 of SSEA Publications and the co-publisher is Benben Publications. The book contains 16 lessons. Each lesson contains a thorough exercise with translation and parsing sections. Later translations contain fairly extended passages. Reading passages from original texts begin in lesson 7 (a poem of a man contemplating death and suicide from the "Dispute between a man and his ba". The complete text of the "Shipwrecked Sailor" appears in serial form (with suitable cliff-hangers) in the remainder of the reading passages. The exercises are difficult, but interesting from the point of view of Egyptian culture, education, religion, history, medicine, and literature. The theoretical approach is "Standard Theory" with some innovations. The examples are mostly in complete sentences and occasionally consist of short passages to provide grammatical and semantic context (and review). The publisher has set the following prices: US & overseas orders: $50 (US) Canadian orders: $60 (Canadian) Note the following discounts for multiple-copy orders: 5 or more copies 40% discount. ***Be sure to include your mailing address in your order *** Cheques or money orders are to be made payable to Benben Publications and sent to the following address: Benben Publications 1483 Carmen Drive Mississauga, Ontario L5G 3Z2 Canada ============================================================================== From: "Lorraine Evans" To: Subject: AEL Middle Kingdom texts Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:33:05 +0100 Good afternoon everybody! Does anybody know of any Middle Kingdon texts that relate specifically to the Amun Priesthood? Lorraine ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "AEL" Subject: AEL Louvre C14 - Lines 8-9 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:17:11 +0200 Line 8 iw[=i] rx=kw[i] rA.w-bAg.w "I know the *auxiliary lines," Line 9 fA.t n.t tp-Hsb "the *canon of proportions," Sd.t s.aq.t m pri[=f ?] aq=f "the *making of a (low) relief (and) the *making of a (high) relief as it comes out and enters" r iw Ha r s.t=f "until (so that) a body may come to its (proper) place" * = unclear, not yet provable The translation above depends on HWB, where the entries are obviously exactly from this text and are more or less educated guesswork. HWB = Rainer Hannig, Grosses Handwoerterbuch Aegyptisch-Deutsch [Great concise dictionary Egyptian-German], Mainz, 1995 rA.w-bAg.w (rA.w-bgA.w) "*auxiliary lines [German: "Quadratnetz", I do not know the exact English term]", HWB, p. 455 - (horizontal and vertical lines to create a net of squares for preparing the relief work) may be derived from -- rA "part", HWB, p. 455 -- bAg "*view", HWB, p. 244 - other words mentioned here are bAgi "to be tired, weak" and words derived from it. -- bgA.w "screaming", HWB, p. 264 -- another entry is bgA.w "shipwrecked person" I find it difficult to find a connection with "auxiliary lines", at best would be "*view". Another line of reasoning is: There are some verbs with special prefixes; well-known are s- for causatives and m-. Edel, Altaegyptische Grammatik [Old Egyptian grammar], paragraph 428 dd) discussed a prefix b- (no explanation given) and cited as an example bgA "to capsize" from *gAi "to capsize" (gAA "to capsize" in the pyramid texts is explained as an emphasized form of *gAi). It seems that bgA.w "shipwrecked person" is a derivative of it. If we accept this reasoning and look for words gAi, we find: -- gAw (gAi) "to be narrow", HWB, p. 893 -- gAi "to moisten", HWB, p. 893 Therefore: gAi "to be narrow" > *bgAi "to be narrow" > *bgA.w perfective active participle pl. "which are narrow" > *ra.w bgA.w "parts which are narrow (= net of squares?)" -- pure speculation!! To be honest, I do not know how to arrive at the translation given above! fA.t n.t tp-Hsb "*canon of proportions", HWB, p. 304 fAi "to weigh", FWB, p. 303 -> fA.t feminine infinitive (paragraph 299 "Forms of the infinitive", 3ae inf.) tp-Hsb "(1) [math] calculation (2) right order, correctness (3) standard, norm", HWB, p. 929 Hence: "the weighing [= assessing?] of the right order/correct calculation/norm" Sd.t "*to make a relief (sunken/low relief)", HWB, p. 843; infinitive of Sdi (3ae inf.) "to take (away), to take (out)" s.aq.t "*to make a relief (high relief)", HWB, p. 672; feminine infinitive of s.aq "to cause to enter" (paragraph 299, caus. 2-lit.) pri aq "entering and coming out", HWB, p. 161 (meaning (13) of pri) m pri[=f ?] aq=f "as it comes out and enters" I have some difficulty with this construction. My proposal: A (perfective) sDm=f after prepositions (paragraph 454, 3). The suffix =f is referring to what? ii, iwi "to come, to come back, to return" (r s.t=f "in its (proper) place"), HWB, p. 27 r iw Ha r s.t=f "until a body may come to its (proper) place" Please note that there is not an infinitive after r which "often expresses _purpose_ or _result_ (paragraph 304, 3), as the infinitive of "to come" is either ii.t or iw.t (paragraph 299, anom.). This form can be explained as "perfective sDm=f" (paragraphs 447 ff). Form: paragraph 459 "the sDm=f forms from _ii, iw_ 'come'": "The _-i_ stem writes _ii_, _iy_ ... the _-w_ stem ... show two distinct forms, (a) D54-G43 _iw_, rarely written M18-G43 [which is the case in our text] and (b) _iw.t_." "... _iw_ may occasionally be perfective ... after various prepositions ..." Paragraph 454, 4: "After _r_ 'until' ... _relative future_ time is indicated." However, there may be a more modern interpretation of this construction. This section of Irtisen's inscription seems to be about the art of making a relief: He knew to prepare it by drawing auxiliary lines, to apply the canon of proportions correctly, to make low and high reliefs so that all parts of the relief will find their proper places. Best wishes, Michael Tilgner mtilgner@knuut.de ============================================================================== From: BabyRett@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 02:27:36 EDT Subject: Re: AEL Middle Kingdom texts To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Try these... Loretta Jones BabyRett@aol.com Published by William C. Hayes, A Papyrus of The Late Middle Kingdom In the Brooklyn Museum [Papyrus Brooklyn 35.1446], Wilbour Monographs, Vol. 5 (New York: The Brooklyn Museum, 1955) pp. 111-25, 71-85; Middle Kingdom Translated by John A. Wilson, in Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament, ed. by James B. Pritchard, 2nd ed. (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1955) pp. 216-17; New Kingdom Translated by John A. Wilson, in Ancient Near Eastern Textgs Relating to the Old Testament, ed. by Jaby James B. Pritchard, 2nd ed. (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1955) pp. 214-16; New Kingdom ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:43:21 +0000 Subject: AEL (Fwd) Menkaure inscription Forwarded on behalf of the undersigned, to whom replies should be addressed. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:17:39 -0300 From: "Juan_Manuel Duarte" To: markw@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Menkaure inscription If you can't answer this question, maybe you can post it for me in AEL so someone can help me. I understand (read some time ago) that near the pyramid of king Menkaure at Giza an inscription was found that specified the exact date in which the king's mummy was laid to rest in the pyramid. Now I just can't recall where I got that information, could any of the List members help by sending me a private email to: jmduarte@i.com.uy quoting the relevant bibliography, and if possible, the text in translation? Thank you ! J. M. Duarte Montevideo, Uruguay. ==============================================================================